@RPG
Mister n0de Doantz know how to code 4 shtz ;-)
didnt' ya know ?

Yeah I've been following some of the latest discussions. My jumping into them wouldn't be constructive...

. smile .
it is fact, that we (the non-coder) need a group-clone to extend the functionallity of elgg beyond blog, bookmarks and the wire  :-)
as a non-coder, i clone blog and bookmarks and extend fieds, that's easy
but groups are special and that is we are talking about

we need a simple group-template to customize it
if there is somebody, who has the code, i am very pleased, when he post the plugin to the community ;-)

@manfred the problem is groups are not something as simple as bookmarks or blogs, they have much greater fuctionality and thus require much more involvement when trying to "customize" them. I doubt you will ever see any real "customizable" groups as what seems to be desired by the "non-coders". What "coders" do is clone the groups and then customize the code to get them to do what we want. I have a site now running 4 different versions of Groups with varying functionality.

Cloning groups isn't really that difficult, you just have to understand the structure of Elgg and be sure you rename what needs to be renamed and redirect what needs to be redirected (and there is a LOT). When you get to know the structure of the Groups and how they function, cloning becomes a matter of mass search and replace. But all that gets you is Groups with a different name and URL.

The basic problem is that most "non-coders" have no clue what is actually involved in getting things to do what they want and often just think it's a matter of tweaking a line of code here and there, when most often it is anything but that, and then get annoyed when this is pointed out.

Ok thank you so much for the contructive feedback Dhrup, I remeber for my first visit you were so welcoming to suggestions.

How dare you be so arrgant to know what my skillset is or my experience.

My last project was a redesign of a application suing a citrix connection to a SQL DB runniing on infra.

Now in that role, I was bought in for my ability to easy learn new tech. In the course of my 14 month contract, extended once during term, I introduced DB changes and application CODING changes making the application faster and more structured. The DB and application guys always asked to discuss things with me while in redev stages as I would always come up with suggestions that improved the design and lowered dev time.

But as your arrogant stance does not want people like me in Elgg. I will leave and go find another OS dev to put my FREE time into that instead.

@RPG  thats the issue isnt it, imagine if the group names were actually in a global config file and managed elsewhere. So in the code it would easily read from a config file with that Group name. no need to clone no need to hack, no need to find every reference to 'grou' within any plugin dev.

If thats cant be done, why not? what woudl stop and application from reading a config file to be used on a DB? Sorry but it needs to be changed or you will forever have issues with GROUP entity and plugins.

My last comment, good luck. My type are not wanted here obviously

@node there is nothing in the Elgg Core that prevents anyone from creating a new Groups plugin to do just this. This is a common problem. You don't understand how Elgg works.

The Groups you see and use on this site and your own Elgg site, etc. is a plugin. It's not really the same thing as the Elgg entity. The Groups plugin is based on the Elgg entity. I've changed nothing in the Elgg core to allow my site to run 4 different types of groups. I adapted the plugin. My site doesn't even run the original Groups plugin. But it still uses the original, unmodified Elgg Group Entity.

What you want can be done. It would also take a fair bit of work. But nothing needs to be changed in the Elgg core or the Entity object system in order to do so.

If all you want is to be able to have different types of "groups" with identical functionality, but called "communities", "villages", "ports", etc., then all you need to do is make a copy of the Groups plugin, modify it once, and then you can simply copy/global search/replace the modified version as often as you need. This needs to be done on both the code and the file names.

I can clone my groups plugin and have it running under another name and url on my site in 5 minutes. There isn't really any coding required if a renamed clone is all you want.

@rpgrealms most of the "none-coders" have a lot of work to customize the layout with css and change, add, delete parts of views, menu and page-parts  . . . it takes a lot of time to understand, how elgg works and in one ore two years we can play with elgg like piano ;-)

but the "none-coders" main interest is to build a community that satisfield the members an himself

for the "non-coder" it is not important how to make a group-clone, it only has to work and it must be compatible to future releases and the solution must be quick

i can not believe, that the there is nobody out there, who clones a group with "search and replace" :-)

for "non coders" could be a look at a group-clone plugin made with "search and replace" a good way to understand elgg a bit more ;-)

@n0de don't go
many people many characters :-)

@manfred

<sarcasm>

Yeah and the "coders" don't do anything but tinker with Elgg as a hobby. They aren't

a) customizing the layout of their site with css and code

b) trying to build a community that satisfies his site's members and himself

c) uploading free plugins for "non-coders" to use

d) spending time answering questions on the Elgg site

e) wondering if it's worth it and why they bother

</sarcasm>

@RPG  you are as bad as Dhrup. How do you know what I or anyone else, does or does not understand? Of course your response will be because of what we say. How do you know we are wrong in our way of thinking cos you do it all the time so therefore you are right. Challenge your mindset everynow and then, you will learn more.

I introduced Elgg to 2 people, one a DB programmer and another PHP/c+/Java/css/XHTML programer. I explained to them what the data model was. They both understood what I said to them and aggreed how good it was. So that is a non-coder who was able to understand Elgg and explain to two seperate coders.

So please do not assume what anyone can or cannot do.