Request to move some plugins to core

This is not an issue or bug so I am not submitting to third party github at present.
Its just a request and also a desire to hear the community opinion to move one or two plugins to core. I do understand that core needs to remain slim and performing :)

With Elgg upgraded to 1.9.4 or 1.9.x many plugins are not working as expected or working at all. I understand that it takes time, as these plugins are developed at free time, and free-of-cost.

Certain plugins seem to be "lifeline" as we choose Elgg for this plugins specially apart from Elgg core. I have been waiting from Elgg 1.8 for Elgg 1.9 specially for its "comments as entities" so that we could jump to comments directly from activity stream, and other performance and code benefits that 1.9.x has to offer. However, the wait seems to never get over as certain plugins have stopped working. Some are just theme (Ishouvik profile, which abolishes the odd and mostly blank "About" in Elgg profile) Some are privacy related like Profile Manager - however some are essential like Friends Request, Event Manager etc

I understand that different people have different criteria for "essential" and there is no system of "Ideas" like WP, Ubuntu etc. Still I think, in the face of Facebook, many people need Friend Request in the conventional and *current* definition of Friend as understood by billions (both way mutual approval), as well as they need Followers-Following also (with side-widgets for both). If this is moved to core like Blog etc, Elgg users can benefit immensely.
Another such important plugin is Event Manager which probably 80% or more of the sites use or if any new site is coming up, will need. Last but not the least, a plugin for Elgg 1.9 that can allow any non-admin user to block another non-admin user. This needs to be in core for a social net framework.

Thus, if some plugins are moved to core it will be good for users I believe.

  • Hi dranii,

    adding more features (plugins) to core, was in the early days when i used Elgg also my thought, but currently i think a bit different about it. Adding more plugins to core will increase the effort for core devs to move the core forward. Keeping them out of core adds more flexibility. Sure there are a lot of useful plugins that i install on almost all my Elgg sites, but adding them to core is not beneficial to the development of the plugin.

    As a plugin developer i would like to add features to plugins when i like. If it is in core it can only be done between minor releases (1.9 and 1.10 for example). That means features can not be added "on demand". If a plugin is in high demand then it will get it's needed updates quick. Most of the time the plugins are updated in the order of the financing of those plugin upgrades.

    If you think Elgg needs new features, you could discuss this feature here on the community and if you have multiple people in need of the feature you can submit a Feature Request issue on github where you explain in detail what the feature should be and why it is such a generic need that it needs to be in core. If it can't / won't be added to core you can also look for devs that could build that feature into a plugin for you.

    With Elgg upgraded to 1.9.4 or 1.9.x many plugins are not working as expected or working at all.

    This is not entirely true. Profile manager is one of the first plugins i migrated from 1.8 to 1.9 and the only reason it did not work instant, was that i used a part of Elgg in a "illegal" way. That fix was relatively easy. Elgg 1.7 and 1.8 broke a lot of plugins in a way that required a lot of work, but 1.9 is not doing that. I expect with the new approach on release the upgrades will be even less of a problem with 1.10 and further.
    Most devs will rework their code between releases of Elgg, so that can be taking more time than just fixing it for the new version.

    Related to your suggestion to move plugin into core, i would rather suggest moving all plugins out of core, so there could be a different release schedule for plugins and it would be easier to add features to plugins.

  • So is Profile Manager working for 1.9.4 Elgg? What about https://community.elgg.org/plugins/736695/2.7.1/event-manager for Elgg 1.9.4?

    Jeroen, I already admitted whatever you have said in my opening post. Removing all plugins out of core with core just containing user authentication, registration, general security is a good idea but things to consider are :
    1) The lag between core release and plugin release
    2) some plugins cease to work completely - suppose plugins for which one chose Elgg over Xyz
    3) some plugins are orphaned when dev gets better job, loses interest etc

    An email system with user system but without inbox or without compose ? Sound odd. Isn't it? Its true complexity of Elgg is not as simple as that. Its also true unless there is LOT of demand or some young and rising Dev moves into core team and feels the same way as me nothing is going to happen.

    Anyway, cheers for what we have already.

  • I'm wrapping up releases for 1.9 of several plugins as we speak. So Profile Manager and Event Manager will be released to the community in a few days.

    3) some plugins are orphaned when dev gets better job, loses interest etc

    This is only true if there is no funding. If there is funding, plugins will never be orphaned as there will always be someone to continue the work. You can only expect so much from "free" developers.

  • Elgg itself is free and so are many great plugins like iionly's, yours :)
    The problem that many users and semi-hobby or hobby users face is this *mixture* of free and paid environment.


    Your case of "free" developers is true but devs also gets many, many test hours of usage, bug reporting and numerous feedback free. If the entire environment was a paid one like some scripts (Social Engine, PHPFox) things probably would have been different.


    The largest and the most popular cms/framework/social scripts like Drupal, Wordpress, Elgg basically came from "free" developers. But that was about seven to ten years ago. There has been no such great script in the last 5 years or so, and sadly many companies, instead of web address, have started publicizing just their FB/Twitter pages so that they do not need any cms. The "free" devs of Drupal, WP has also now turned into great business houses. The brilliant era of open-source && free has ended. Commerce has won. So yes I agree "You can only expect so much from "free" developers"


    However its not just funding - a plugin can gather some funding, which may not be negligible, but the Dev's job can be even more lucrative like at Google's or FB's. That much $$, funding for plugin cannot generate.
    Take the example of one of the Event Manager Plugins of Wordpress - the young Dev , irrespective of funding, announced he cannot support the plugin anymore as he got job for Google and as part of contract he can do no dev work for other projects like WP etc. You will not believe that since then there is no such good event manager plugin in WP as in Elgg though there are many paid and free event plugins for WP.


    There is also another issue : sudden demise of a single plugin dev - the very cool Yogurt social plugin (many functionality like Elgg) for the popular Xoops CMS came to a sad end when the Dev Marcello Brandão suddenly died! Many users had to shift to Buddypress/Elgg etc.

  • However its not just funding - a plugin can gather some funding, which may not be negligible, but the Dev's job can be even more lucrative like at Google's or FB's. That much $$, funding for plugin cannot generate.
    Take the example of one of the Event Manager Plugins of Wordpress - the young Dev , irrespective of funding, announced he cannot support the plugin anymore as he got job for Google and as part of contract he can do no dev work for other projects like WP etc. You will not believe that since then there is no such good event manager plugin in WP as in Elgg though there are many paid and free event plugins for WP.

    There is also another issue : sudden demise of a single plugin dev - the very cool Yogurt social plugin (many functionality like Elgg) for the popular Xoops CMS came to a sad end when the Dev Marcello Brandão suddenly died! Many users had to shift to Buddypress/Elgg etc.

    This is where the beauty of open source development kicks in! The community is free to continue abandoned plugins.

  • > i would rather suggest moving all plugins out of core

    Yes please

    > With Elgg upgraded to 1.9.4 or 1.9.x many plugins are not working as expected or working at all.

    Which ones? We tried limiting the damage for 1.9, and I think we did well. We're taking an even stronger stance for 1.10. Elgg releases going forward should be extremely plugin friendly and stable. If you find this not to be the case, do let us know.

  • > Which ones?
    Friend Request
    this helps to use the term "Friend" in conventional and user-expected way
    Tabbed Profile
    https://community.elgg.org/plugins/1115859/1.7/tabbed-profile - this helps to solve this
    Event manager
    Events are an integral part of any social network or social network php scripts
    Geo-location Plugins
    None of the geolocation plugins that help users to show where they are/were on a Google/any other map

    These above plugins are not working and holding one from using Elgg 1.9.4 with no alternative being available in core.
    There are others also like Liked Content (Error messages), river_activity_3C, ishouvik_profile etc



    Evan, it will be also very helpful if you can solve this :
    1) As said above - I have been waiting from Elgg 1.8 for Elgg 1.9 specially for its "comments as entities" so that we could jump to comments directly from activity stream, just as contents are linked from the stream
    2) core Embed plugin problem

  • It is pretty easy to take the decision to include some plugins in the core. But somebody still has to do the extra work! That means, if that was the case, we could probably still be waiting for 1.9 release now.

    As already mentioned, everybody has a different priority list. If I had to choose, I'd give priority for ProfileManager way over EventManager. And I'd rather have an early core release than awaiting one containing ProfileManager. That is; even if you ignore some other strong arguments against the inclusions.

    As for Open Source versus Commercial. Even if you ignore the well-known advantages of Open Source, I do not understand this "all paid" argument. Having a more lively commercial plugin market probably would help Elgg but there is no point in complaining that Elgg is not "all paid" environment. If that is the wish, there are already other such environments, like PHPFox with its advantages and disadvantages. There is no point in wishing Elgg turn into PHPFox-2 (used to think slightly different).

    It is definitely wrong to assume that support is better with commercial products of Elgg. I have heard some very bad cases otherwise. Besides, proprietary products get discontinued if companies go bust etc, as already exemplified.

    There is no point in getting impatient with the developers. They are busy working for their livelihood. What could be done is, if upgrading a plugin really matters, to fund the developers for their effort and get it done. It could be in the form of crowd-funding.

    As far as I know, it is not being done. So, in the absence of such funding, the only thing to do is waiting until the developers have the time and other resources.

  • I have both friend request and event manager installed on my 1.9.4 with only a minor issue with the friends request. On the friend request plugin the only issue is between admin and users when they friend each other, the button just says pending request even after they are friends, it's the only issue i have.

     

    Event manager works great and i even have the event calendar working with it with no issues.

  • Thanks Digital, I downloaded the github -master version of Event Manager and it seems to work.

Feedback and Planning

Feedback and Planning

Discussions about the past, present, and future of Elgg and this community site.