elgg comet chat programming

Time for a chat in elgg

  • I would like to see the elgg default messages plugin upgraded to a chat. It is in need of upgrading anyway so best would be to go all the way to making it fully chat-like. At least I don't see a reason why there should be separate plugin for messages and chat. Also it would be nice to have the chat messages as actual elgg entities. This way the chat would support likes and other Elgg features. (Many of the community chats save the messages to their own database or data directory so they don't have support for these.)

    There's already this ticket http://trac.elgg.org/ticket/4287 for the messages plugin. At first the plan was to just attach the original message to a reply. But that was changed to introducing message threads so that all messages between two users could be dispayed in a chonological list. Maybe after the threads are in place it could be possible to build chat-features on top of the plugin.

    There's of course the need to backwards compatibility in messages plugin. All the new features have to take into consideration the old messages already existing in the database. A chat plugin would be easier to build if it didn't have to support all the old messages created with messages plugin. One option could be to build the chat plugin from a scratch and then allow end users to decide it they still want to keep using the messages plugin in case they don't want to loose the old messages. Or someone in the community would propably even go through the trouble of creating a plugin that migrates the old messages to chat messages so that sites could use a brand new chat plugin without loosing the message history.

    One use for the messages plugin is currently of course the site notifications. But I have understood that since in Elgg 1.9 the notifications system is going to be completely rewritten, there will most likely also be a new system for displaying site notifications separately. In similar way to for example this: http://community.elgg.org/plugins/1144603/1.61/new-live-notifications-ajax. (I was actually also working on a plugin like that but Fernando beat me to it. :)

    In any case I think the chat should be a bundled plugin so there would be guaranteed support for it from the core team and other contributors.

  • too many if`s..

     

    then -- all those current, nice messages plugins extensions, features, everything -> just gets thrown away in the trash-compactor and simply goes away ?

    #1
    like to see the elgg default messages plugin upgraded to a chat. 
    need of upgrading anyway so best.. all the way to making it fully chat-like. 
     
        lot of code work.
     
    #2
    don't see a reason why there should be separate plugin for messages and chat. 
     
        developers since 2008 -- have all coded **separate chat plugins.
     
    #3
    would be nice to have the chat messages as actual elgg entities. 
    chat would support likes and other Elgg features.

        'likes' ? on my **private messages ??

    #4
    someone in the community would probably even go through the trouble of creating a plugin
    that migrates the old messages to chat messages.

        'probably even.. **trouble' ? exactly ;-P
        who spends 8 hours/day, 7 days/week coding gpl plugins ?

    #5
    guaranteed support for it from the core team and other contributors.

        guaranteed ? 
        still hopeful ;-)
        who - of core team or other contributors - 
        has the free and spare time to guarantee ? (see #4 above)

  • @DhrupDeScoop

    #1 Yes, but I know for a fact that there are clients who have message history that they do not want to loose. So it is not an option to replace the messages plugin with an other plugin that can't view the old messages.

    #2 Here I mean the bundled plugins. In the default package there is no need for separate messages and chat plugin.

    #3 There could be a possibility to have a chat with more than just two people. In a situation like that there would definitely be demand for a possibility to like individual messages.

    #4 Creating such plugin wouldn't take long. What I mean is that it just wouldn't really belong to the Elgg default package, but would instead belong to community.

    #5 If the bundled plugin is good enough I don't see why any developer would like to start maintaining their own plugin unless there's need for some really extensive customizations. When you search the community you can find some chat plugins that haven't been updated in years. And even if someone else has made a new version of a  plugin, the old project usually still remains in the original developer's plugin repository.

    And by "guaranteed support" I don't just mean that the plugin gets updated on a regular basis, but that the plugin works through all the Elgg version upgrades. The current bundled plugins all do that.

  • oki ;-)

    noww - i start to see why you've been writing so strongly so much b4 about this mssgs<-> chat idea !;-P )i never really paid much attn to yr earlier 'chat plugin' ! until @now! i change..

    (perhaps) my main point = the mssgs|chats combo can be seen as *one idea approach to mssgs & chats {& there has 2 B other approaches as well;}

    and okidoki - i take backk part of what i said abt 'too mch work' ;-P hehehh! sure! for 'devs' who know their stuff and know php, etc and they actually write code in their sleep and in the toilet ;-P 'nothing' is 'too hard' (is it?) 

    you've taken the different 'thinking' paradigms re: 'lazy, offline messages' & 'realtime interactive chat'  into just *1 basket. hmm!?;-P

    one important aspect is ' Elgg.1.9 notifications sys re-write..' must wait to see what this is and how the design & logic will change -- so that any related, dependent issues can be made to neatly fall into place for mssgs|chats (EMS := EgG-MeSsG-SyS?) ~> this could become important factor for whole EMS thang!; new 1.9  notifications' could likely affect, change, improve overall EMS design.

    [ saving, converting old messages 'history' data will be not a problem at all - once the new data fmts are known ]

     

  • Unified real-time messaging is definitely awesome, but I'd be very surprised if core ever tackles chat with what's already on out plates. It's very hard to do well, and very hard to do w/o killing your server (until we can significantly cut down Elgg's boot time). We have to support cheap hosting so ajax polling is the only option for now.

    And I'm all for OSS, but there exists a certain commercial chat product that rhymes with "vomit hat" that's ridiculously cheap and polished and integrates absurdly easy w/ Elgg...

    Cash's notifications rewrite is in progress, but I don't think it will make this kind of usage any more lightweight.

  • Steve: there's details on the 1.9 notifications rewrite design for studying ? code, descriptions, whatevers ? i don't quite expect that rea to make this 'unified EMS';) messaging *easier - but believe EMS needs to consider and show regard for 1.9/Notif to be able to either interface and/or utilize. juhos' design ideas have entrapped my eyes, mind ;oO

     

  • just happened to (re) read abt that 'comet' thang'z @title; they actually do interface to 'APE' servers' !;-P ohh lolz !;-X}

  • Thats oxwall. 

    For chat why cant we stick to freichat/cometchat/arrowchat? The elgg's data modal is too heavy for a chat software which polls the DB at short intervals. Always its better to have a different DB tables for the chat script.

  • @Steve Clay: Do you have any answers yet for my direct question to you ? ~> RE: your " Unified real-time messaging is definitely awesome " --> Is there details on the 1.9 notifications rewrite design for studying ? code, descriptions, whatevers ? i don't quite expect that area to make this 'unified EMS';) messaging *easier - but believe EMS needs to show consideration and show regard for others - 1.9/Notif - to be able to either interface and/or utilize. juhos' design ideas have entrapped my eyes, mind ;oO Or perhaps.. we should name this new messaging system the " Unified Real Time Messaging " ?;) What are your thoughts ?

  • This looks like Cash's work branch for notifications, but there may be newer work he hasn't pushed/elsewhere. From what I understand the new design was supposed to at least consider that plugins will want to add real-time messaging.

  • i'll be reading thru here (already have started ;)

    my thoughts on a messages 're-write' earlier and preceding juho's funky chat integrxn ideas ->
    was to do something along lines of ymail or gmail intergrated email + chat stuff.

    (the mockup above is {obviously} modelled after gmail & circles ;) [ nexgen circles is still in code but not forgotten ;-\  just trying to think of something extras to 1-up gc's features ] 

    form the little i have seen at the github motifications link.. looks like some parts lesser or greater in there - can be hooked into for this ems/urtm/mail+chat thangz.

    elgg's messages itself i think could be with some heavy internal re-design; viz there's some data duplication (from/to) in there i do not feel comfy abt.